ABSTAIN x 🥌
↳ mmurthy.eth

Throwing weight behind zero weight votes with reason.

totally understand the concerns but this feels like it has a lot of potential ⌐◨-◨

The Nouncil has spoken.

We discuss all Nouns proposals every week in our Discord https://discord.gg/fdjJpMeV6K. The calls are public and all are welcome!

You can find previous call recordings here: https://nouncil.notion.site/30328df718424f17a623859018497fc2?v=806b5234a2a34b619c3d5028bcd879f0&pvs=4

Against - Wins

FOR - 8 VOTES

AGAINST - 25 VOTES

akva556 | "another client, no thanks"

peterpandam | "What happens after the 4 months?"

ABSTAINS - 6 VOTES

Previously I've expressed concern that this will not capture the Nouns ecosystem and that seems to be playing out. It's good at surfacing Nouner activity but not much beyond. I'm afraid this will lead to another app that does not get much use and we end up with additional tech debt.

I would like to support the attempt to visualize onchain activity itself.

(noun40 voting via agora)

a well maintained onchain contributor/fan database + a platform for subjective attestations are the foundation we need to build a sybil resistant identity system within nouns. we NEED to get out of a world where nouners/delegates are needed to vote on everything. we should have the whole nouns citizen base ("true fans" "nouns folk" or whatever we call this group of ppl that really care about nouns beyond their financial incentive) to vote on things. we can start small (like micro grants), but we can't let anyone vote. we also can't let a trivially fakeable set of ppl to vote. nouns karma's work is the foundation for that type of development.

what i would ask from the proposer is to not just build the onchain database and attestation system hope someone uses it. you should be ACTIVELY looking to make it used for an economic system of consequence within nouns. specifically i think you should provide a set of addresses that you think are sybil-resistant for different use cases.

(you mentioned nouns.zone but i don't know spam is really an issue on farcaster these days since the warpcast team improved the system)

two use cases i see are:

• bound is trying to get a prize pool going (the initial prop failed but i hope we can get another one up soon; growing the nouns minting economy is important!). if the prize pool emerges then there will start to be attempts to juice the mint numbers to win more of the prize pool. if you could provide a sybil resistant set of addresses here to help count mints by true fans rather than bots for the purpose of the prize pool distribution calculation then i would consider that a meaningful use of nouns karma's work.
• you could talk to seneca (for advice) to see if we can get some sort of infinite round or regular round for small grants going that again true fans vote for rather than nouners/delegates. this would be a big win since we haven't had a nouns funding mechanism voted on by nouns fans rather than nouners and if it works it could really help make nouns more democratic and scale governance further as well.

if something like #1 or #2 materializes in the next 4 months i would consider this prop a success and be willing to continue to fund. if it doesn't and nouns karma is a thing that exists but isn't used to support any type of economic system of consequence within the nouns world after 4 months then i would likely not. just a note for the proposer is that nouns is at times hard to navigate b/c it's headless. there's no company or foundation that you can talk to. that's what makes it both hard but also special! hope you can find your way around this world and make nouns karma the foundation of important economic systems within our world.

Pretty much agree with willpappers vwr but still choose to vote For based on a couple things:

• Im fascinated by nouns as a software platform, and specifically software built for a small but fervent user base of nouners (broad definition). Arguably, this circle of people carry nouns on a day-to-day and, all things considered, its pretty brittle. I believe one way to expand and strengthen this circle is to feed it with new, useful, fun tools (and people! see next bullet) that adds to the game of nouns.
• Its proven hardish to attract devs/founders/teams who deeply understands nouns and im willing to make a bet on karma team w hopes that they both deepen their understanding to become domain experts and stick around for the long haul

On introspection, i believe i want to run this experiment to see if mmurthy and team can be thoroughly noun-pilled during the 4m term

Echo Wylin and Brennen's vwr

I wish that the relationship between Karma and NounsKarma was more fully spelled out in the proposal. Karma already has VC funding. Since Karma already has VC funding, the question is not whether a Karma-like tool needs support from Nouns to enable it to exist (it has independent funding, which is great!). The question is whether Nouns wants to pay for Karma's software.

Of course, having funding shouldn't disqualify a project from receiving funds from Nouns. That would be silly -- Nouns should fund tools that it finds useful, regardless of their funding sources. Myself and multiple other Nouns community members run VC-backed companies. The fact that NounsKarma already received funding from Nouns Garden is a testament to this.

But if a project already has funding, that does change the relationship between Nouns and the project from backer to buyer. For projects without funding, Nouns is uniquely stepping in to enable that project to exist (which is the case for public goods projects that may not have a clear business model). For projects that have funding, Nouns becomes in effect a buyer of their software.

So, to put it another way, should Nouns buy Karma's software for $80K? (Possibly more if there are subsequent requests.) I don't have a strong opinion on that. Personally, for me, NounsKarma does not quite provide $80K of value to the DAO yet. It certainly does provide value -- having a dashboard for activity across all of the Nouns ecosystem is useful -- and the Garden funding is great support for this. But since Karma has funding, I would prefer to wait and see Karma develop more before funding further development. I'm not opposed to funding them at all - it only seems better to wait for NounsKarma's usage to grow since Karma will not live or die by Nouns's funding alone. I'm not Against -- if the DAO does decide that NounsKarma provides $80K in value, I am very happy to fund that. But I will Abstain since I don't believe the DAO needs to fund NounsKarma right now, since Karma can continue to develop and NounsKarma can grow in usage.

Reputation tracking infra is something that is very needed in crypto generally, and in Nouns more specifically. Nouns is also perhaps better suited than most communities to experiment in this area, as many of us are pseudonymous, but still care greatly for our onchain reputation.

I like that this proposer won a Prop House round (on their third attempt) and delivered a working MVP, and then some. I also think the per month ask here is not very high for developers of this caliber, and overall I just think it’s worthwhile to let them cook and see what happens.

This proposal gives me a mandated-round vibe!

I'd like to address some comments and clear up a few misunderstandings:

• What we have built for other DAOs is entirely different from what we are building for NounsKarma. The codebase is different, the problem itself is different. For other DAOs, we have built delegate dashboards. This is not at all what we are building. NounsKarma is an attempt at solving reputation for all nounish users. Some ideas like indexing activity are same but sources we are indexing are different, the entire attestation concept is new and we haven't built anything like that yet.

• $80k/4 months doesn't necessarily translate to $240k because we won't request the same amount again if we can't justify the future work involved. Ex: Our app is not design heavy, so we probably won't even need further design help. If we do request that amount and dao feels we haven't executed well, pretty sure our prop will fail.

• Regarding "unproven necessity", I just want to say every single usecase we want to tackle and solve has come from our discussions with community members who deeply understand Nouns ecosystem.

This would be the best way to identify the most nounish members and keep them active.

+1 to 💎.wylin💎.eth's perspectives.

had a great call with mahesh earlier this week and was impressed with his plans for nounskarma. making progress to solve for nounish rep would unlock a lot of value for us and I am happy to support a team focused on solving these issues. it's also important for establishing a robust nouns minting economy

https://www.lilnouns.wtf/vote/nounsdao/481/votes FOR 27 VOTES 0xADa31Add8450CA0422983B9a3103633b78938617 | "LIL NOUNCIL HAS SPOKEN Delegate to Lil Nouncil here -> https://lilnouns.wtf/delegate?to=lilnouncil.eth" AGAINST 57 VOTES 0x9e0e9D25a5ED9bc773f91691f0b45599255257B1 | "Unclear purpose, unproven necessity, lack of tech details, funding justification, limited track record, and unclear long-term viability." ABSTAINS 27 VOTES

Attestations will be the most important new crypto primitive in 2024. Karma is one of the top teams in the emerging attestation ecosystem. Attestations will allow us to broader the community, officially, attesting that people have contributed to Nouns, attended events, minted NFTs, won prop houses, given conference talks and have built things. It will be the #1 way to identify someone as Nounish onchain which will unlock many new things. We should lead innovation on attestations and this is the team to do it. Additionally we should be growing our developer ecosystem and sending signals that we are open to new talented developers joining the ecosystem.

For the similar reasons I voted against bound.wtf. I think the team is solid and the product is a good one. But we need numbers that nouners are nounish people are using this product.

As part of my participation in the UnfilteredNoun experiment, VWRs will be minted via bound.wtf

https://zora.co/collect/base:0x445e0d7e1a8cef145d9e0e59c766c95e478f427a

This proposal seems like exactly what i'd be looking for from a small team
working exclusively on this project for Nouns. Love that it started in the Garden.
The more props we graduate up from Prop House and subDAOs, the better.

The full-time salaries are reasonable, as is the part-time/ OpEx budget.
Could be more lean and resourceful imo but we're not that far out of the ZIRP era yet
so can't expect software developers to think like general contractors.

That said, this totals out to $240k annual for a piece of software
from a venture backed company that is also building similar tools
for the largest, most well-financed organizations in the Ethereum ecosystem

i'm no developer so pardon if i'm speaking out of turn;
is it not mostly a matter of putting Noggles and Londrina on top of the same web app
all of the other orgs are using + plugging in Nouns smart contracts?

No diss to Nouns, but if Gitcoin, Optimism, ENS, and 20+ others are already using this tool,
i have a hard time seeing what is so novel about our use case that to implement these features it would require 2 full time developers + part time staff dedicated exclusively to Nouns

also, having worked in SaaS sales, $240k annual is the price of enterprise software.
unless and until the DAO is pulling in 9-10 figures of annual revenue,
we have no business paying this much annually for software.

i'm sympathetic to the need for venture-backed companies to drive revenue -
especially in this market. i think the DAO would do better to consolidate around operating
its own internal software team, something like Verbs + Camp + Prop House + Bound,
funded with reasonably low annual base salaries + quarterly sprints as defined by the DAO
that unlock bonuses to make it more than worth it

not saying Mahesh isn't Nounish, he certainly seems like it.
just think the DAO could harbor and develop passionate internal talent,
not contribute our public goods money to the VC industrial complex,
and maybe be a little less scatterbrained with what we're building